This is the first thing I've read in many months where I can relate to ALL of it.
I lost my job last August at 50 years old and do you think I could find a new one? On our biggest job search site in Canada, records show that I've applied for over 60 jobs in 6 months. I've have MAYBE 8 interviews. Zero call backs. For lack of jobs in my industry I even applied at doggy daycares lol. Still didn't get that job because they hired someone with dog training experience. I have NEVER seen the job market be this impenetrable in my life and being 51 now doesn't help. That's why I opted to start my Virtual Assistant business here on Substack. Time has proven that I have no other options!
Somebody said the same people who want us to work until we're 75 are the same ones who won't hire us after we're 50 and I believe it.
Nobody cares about our experience, education or skills. Our best bet is making a job for ourselves. People who will not hire you on staff will happily pay you on a freelance basis. Explain that one to me.
Great post. I hear you! "Chasing jobs that go to younger people is not a good use of my time." I've also been applying for jobs the past 1.5 YEARS. Blasting my resume – Mid to Sr level, for which I'm qualified. Unfortunately, even those go to younger people. The field I'm in, designing for elections, requires excessive amount of work, (70-80 hours/wk at peak). Once you're in that arena, it's hard to find anything else. I mean, I'd like time to shower, please!
I often see the "people don't want to work" phrase coming from wealthier people who are disconnected from reality. Entry level jobs are not long term, and menial work is not enjoyable, so people quit. That's what compelled me to start a Substack, in the hopes it would gain traction and eventually revenue. I put in so many hours researching and writing each story, it fully qualifies as work.
It is ABSOLUTELY work to run a Substack. And to do Medium. And to write books. And to do freelance work. Maybe I could get a job at Taco Bell, but maybe they'd just tell me I'm overqualified, or maybe they'd give me very random and unpredictable hours, while, based on everything I know about working such jobs, treating me like shit. NOPE. Even though I'd probably make more at Taco Bell!
I remember how utterly useless and worthless I felt when after 30 years of working on a job designed for men in manufacturing I had to go out on social security disability. I didn’t apply for a long time as I kept hoping that my worn out and damaged body would heal. I had earned enough credits for a bachelors degree in business but stayed at the plant work for the money and great benefits for myself and two children as I was totally ignorant of what it was slowly doing to my body all over and the Lyme disease I contracted when clearing some land I bought surly sped up the wear and tear.
All told I wanted to work badly. I felt like a failure, I didn’t make it to 65 and frankly don’t remember anyone in that job making it to retirement age save one.
It took me years to realize I could no longer work and that no one would hire me if I applied.
As for my husband, twenty years US Army the contractor for DOD type companies. He went back to finish his degree an earned a Bachelors in Business Administration Magna Cum Laud. So at 59 years old here he is with a degree with honors in hand and no call backs on jobs he was perfect for with his skills from his military years in frequency management. Before that a jump master in the 82nd airborne so you’d think educated vets would get a leg up? No not at his age.
It used to be common to say “I’ll scrub floors / stack supermarket shelves if i have to” as a badge of pride that you would rather work than “bludge on the dole”. Good luck getting either type of work, or indeed ‘the dole’ (unemployment benefits), even in slightly less individualist Australia.
Here's the thing: I've spend decades learning how to do certain things well, and I just want the chance to do them. I have chosen to do them on my own since nobody wants to hire women my age. People from about 45-65 are a mostly untapped resource!
Me too, its trickier with a chronic illness too. I can do the work, I just can’t always convince the employer to grant me the flexibility that exists around when I do the work. Thank you for raising this issue.
I doubt the damn fools would realize how desperate they are if you hit them with an axe handle in the face. The current crop of managers have no respect for people in general. Much less who could improve their operations. The sniveling devils will be laid off themselves one day before they know it and deservedly so. Their despair will be the olive in my martini.
A friend of mine with a degree kept getting turned down for roles eventually one recruiter told her: “We all know you won’t stay”. Also, being over 21 they couldn’t pay a junior wage. And if you’re outside your 30s they fear it could get expensive if you hurt yourself. And you probably would object to being treated like dirt. None of this helps if you need to pay for food and shelter. I hope things improve for you Lucy.
Thank you. I’m very lucky, things have worked out, I landed my dream job against the odds. It’s only part-time, but it’s do-able. I’ve heard since that me getting hired was a very close thing (50’s, fat) but a dearth of applicants and me having experience got me over the line. My employer has openly said they have no regrets at all about hiring me, yet they still prefer to hire younger ones if possible. The young people are great, I love working with them, but they call in sick a lot, have no intention of staying long term, and don’t seem to have much initiative.
True story: A certain entitled boss I know who inherited his lucrative place in life would bitch constantly about the work habits of his young employees, who, he said, never stopped applying for better jobs and would leave with little notice. That SAME BOSS at one point cleaned house and dumped all but one of his older employees, save one he couldn't for a specific reason. Forgive me for my lack of sympathy for his terrible problem.
I left a great good paying job in 2013 because my sister and I were tasked with helping Mom manage Dad's pancreas cancer. I honestly thought that it wouldn't be an issue getting a good job when that work was done because I've got great experience, a great work ethic, lots of skills.
Nope.
I've been pounding my head against a wall since 2015, trying to find out where I fit in the working world.
Just got fired from a shipping job because the "good Christian woman" got a wild hair?
Just got turned down for a retail position at Petco.
According to American culture, at 64, I'm not a fit anywhere.
I write, paint, create, and am looking for good paying work. I'm also, because of circumstances, trying to find a low paying job that doesn't treat me like the backyard dog that escaped into the house.
Thank you. Also, that same sect of people don’t want to hear me tell of my friends who work 3 or 4 jobs and have no benefits because they are all part time. My friends who can’t make rent even though they work so much and don’t get enough sleep. They just parrot “unemployment is at an all time low.” Yeah. Because my friends work 3 or more jobs !
It makes me happy to see that people have finally rebelled against the inhumane expectations in the workplace. I could never accept it and took the same alternative route you are of piecing together freelance work. But I did it at a time when no one worked from home and everyone thought I was weird for it. I wonder today, how will the jobs no one wants to do get done that we all rely on?
I agree! My response is, “ not at less the 4% unemployment. And people like me, you’re right. I don’t want to work anymore. I haven’t seen an offer that beats what I have at 65. Probably what you have to offer is a shitty job with shitty wages. It’s what the market will bear.”
The online application process is broken too. Many of those jobs aren’t even real.
I'm finding out what work is now that I'm running my Substack. I started and stopped Medium, and started again. I took a low-paying job for a non-profit to find inspiration to write while waiting to relocate... it's a nice position for someone who 'needs something to do' but that isn't me. Over and under on how long I stay in this position is one month... low paying jobs simply don't don't for me, not after having great paying jobs most of my life. Good read, Michelle.
Can utterly confirm; if you take one high paying position, expect to forever be told you're "overqualified" for anything less.
I have sat and debated with someone for half an hour while on the verge of being evicted that I would gladly accept their pay and hours (both horribly subpar even for entry level) just to pay the bills.
And no one gives a shit. I was just told "studies have shown I will be unsatisfied with my work and cause problems."
I'm not a study, I'm a fucking person!
Everyone who has met me has hired me on the spot.
I haven't actually met with anyone for like 15 years though.
Your message resonates. I wish I had some advice but I’m sure you’ve tried all the usual things. Taking your education and experience off your resume might — MIGHT — help.
I’m not at an age where I suffer ageism (although my mum is and does, she has been applying left right and centre for internal positions to leave her department but they will not hire her even when she has more experience and is a great fit for the other position.)
People WANT to be fairly compensated. Why slave away at a position that won’t even cover my basics? Wages have been stagnating for decades while cost of living continues to increase. Real purchasing power has decreased.
Not to mention many jobs that are posted aren’t even real. They’re designed because governments give tax breaks to job creators, or to threaten current employees (we have 5 candidates waiting for your job if you won’t do it), or have people waiting just in case they need them.
One thing I learnt of here in Canada is that the government has a program where employers can bring in foreign workers if there is a shortage of qualified skilled labour. Yet, corporations like Tim Hortons and other fast food companies are claiming they don’t have enough skilled labour and are allowed to bring in foreign workers.
1. This is not skilled labour (pouring coffee, flipping burgers does not require specialized skills that can’t be taught or trained on site).
2. This is purely wage suppression. There are qualified candidates here, they just don’t want to work for a minimum wage and no benefits, job security or regular schedule. If these employers paid a living wage they would find candidates here.
This infuriates me because it allows corporations to keep wages lower (isn’t capitalism about supply and demand? These same companies that raise their prices because supply is low and demand is high won’t apply the same rules to wages. If you have a low supply of workers and high demand for positions to be filled, then raise wages to incentivize people).
It also infuriates me because we bring people here and offer them next to nothing. You cannot live on minimum wage. If we bring in as many immigrants as we do (last year Canada brought in 1 million people, in a country that was less than 40 million at the time) then we need to ensure we have the ability to support them. We don’t have well paying jobs, we don’t have affordable housing or even enough housing stock (whether affordable or not), we don’t have well functioning public transportation, on and on.
I still love this country but I don’t want to let patriotism blind me to some glaring issues and inequality. Most of the issues here could have been prevented, mitigated or managed if we had proper planning and policy making.
So real! And even when you apply to entry level jobs they want four year degrees for less than 20hr. That’s impossible especially for jobs where all you do is sit at a desk and greet people.
I’m young and still can’t find a better job because half of them don’t exist. I know people who hire and they say that most of the time the business is testing the water to see if it gets traction and never even consider the applicants. Or if they can offer less if it’s popular. Pay is not transparent. And they will change last minute.
Job hunting is crazy and it’s sad how people are treated.
Hello Michelle. I completely understand what you are saying here. I worked in a unionized environment for 23 years. We would have university students come in to do work terms; some of whom would get offered placements. They would ask how they get from the job they are in to the one they studied for. The answer was, oh you will need about 10 - 15 years seniourity. Um... no thankyou, and off they went to a different company where they could do the work they love, right away, with perhaps a lower salary.
All the veteran employees with decades of seniority could not fathom them "giving up this good job". But is it, really? Is it really a good job with so many people in jobs they either don't have the skills or passion for... who got the jobs with seniourity and not necessarily anything else? They are unhappy and either unwilling or unable to do the tasks of the job, making for a miserable work environment.
I am not saying everyone was unhappy but far too many.
I applaud those young people who know what they want and are going for it. I agree that almost everyone wants to work, everyone wants to contribute, and know that their existence means something to the whole. They just don't want to work in the old ways where it was job first and life after.
I work to live now, I do not live to work. I left the corporate world at age 55 in 2021 to pursue my business with all my energy. Helping people with hypnosis and Reiki, plus writing does not currently bring in my management salary, but I love my life now.
Thank you for this true story, Michelle! My brother is 53, and has 30 years in his field and recently interviewed with a Fortune 500 company who sent two 20-somethings to interview him.
I also worked for a company and the manager asked me how to mail something, as in she did not know how to address an envelope!
Where is diversity and inclusion with people who know what the heck they are doing!?!
I love this!! Annnnd I relate to all of it! Very well written!
I got affected by all those tech layoffs last year. Tried to get back into the market but couldn't. Either I was too overqualified or underqualifed. Or I was being hired to do really really shitty jobs for not a lot of money. I decided to say fk it and freelance. I've always loved writing, so I decided to just do it full time and build up from there. It's tough on some days especially when you're not drawing in money but it'll come with time. Cuz I don't think I've been this happy in a long time.
This is the first thing I've read in many months where I can relate to ALL of it.
I lost my job last August at 50 years old and do you think I could find a new one? On our biggest job search site in Canada, records show that I've applied for over 60 jobs in 6 months. I've have MAYBE 8 interviews. Zero call backs. For lack of jobs in my industry I even applied at doggy daycares lol. Still didn't get that job because they hired someone with dog training experience. I have NEVER seen the job market be this impenetrable in my life and being 51 now doesn't help. That's why I opted to start my Virtual Assistant business here on Substack. Time has proven that I have no other options!
I hear you completely. YES to all of this.
Somebody said the same people who want us to work until we're 75 are the same ones who won't hire us after we're 50 and I believe it.
Nobody cares about our experience, education or skills. Our best bet is making a job for ourselves. People who will not hire you on staff will happily pay you on a freelance basis. Explain that one to me.
I think it's just a new and unrecognizable world since the pandemic. It threw everyone who's non-professional out the window!
It threw out professionals, too.
Amen
Great post. I hear you! "Chasing jobs that go to younger people is not a good use of my time." I've also been applying for jobs the past 1.5 YEARS. Blasting my resume – Mid to Sr level, for which I'm qualified. Unfortunately, even those go to younger people. The field I'm in, designing for elections, requires excessive amount of work, (70-80 hours/wk at peak). Once you're in that arena, it's hard to find anything else. I mean, I'd like time to shower, please!
I often see the "people don't want to work" phrase coming from wealthier people who are disconnected from reality. Entry level jobs are not long term, and menial work is not enjoyable, so people quit. That's what compelled me to start a Substack, in the hopes it would gain traction and eventually revenue. I put in so many hours researching and writing each story, it fully qualifies as work.
It is ABSOLUTELY work to run a Substack. And to do Medium. And to write books. And to do freelance work. Maybe I could get a job at Taco Bell, but maybe they'd just tell me I'm overqualified, or maybe they'd give me very random and unpredictable hours, while, based on everything I know about working such jobs, treating me like shit. NOPE. Even though I'd probably make more at Taco Bell!
I remember how utterly useless and worthless I felt when after 30 years of working on a job designed for men in manufacturing I had to go out on social security disability. I didn’t apply for a long time as I kept hoping that my worn out and damaged body would heal. I had earned enough credits for a bachelors degree in business but stayed at the plant work for the money and great benefits for myself and two children as I was totally ignorant of what it was slowly doing to my body all over and the Lyme disease I contracted when clearing some land I bought surly sped up the wear and tear.
All told I wanted to work badly. I felt like a failure, I didn’t make it to 65 and frankly don’t remember anyone in that job making it to retirement age save one.
It took me years to realize I could no longer work and that no one would hire me if I applied.
As for my husband, twenty years US Army the contractor for DOD type companies. He went back to finish his degree an earned a Bachelors in Business Administration Magna Cum Laud. So at 59 years old here he is with a degree with honors in hand and no call backs on jobs he was perfect for with his skills from his military years in frequency management. Before that a jump master in the 82nd airborne so you’d think educated vets would get a leg up? No not at his age.
I don’t think many of us understand how severe ageism is until we hit 50.
This is a sad story.
And it’s not how I planned it when I was young and tough
Don't let anyone tell you that your experience is "unique" or you didn't do something properly.
The entire culture throws you into the trash pile at 50, especially women, and even more especially childless women.
Veterans aren't honored anywhere after the new/shiny has worn off. Old vets? Lots of talk talk, no real help or recognition.
The work we're doing here is going to change this.
Oh, and the UK is way better than America in the workplace. Lightyears better/kinder/more human.
It used to be common to say “I’ll scrub floors / stack supermarket shelves if i have to” as a badge of pride that you would rather work than “bludge on the dole”. Good luck getting either type of work, or indeed ‘the dole’ (unemployment benefits), even in slightly less individualist Australia.
Here's the thing: I've spend decades learning how to do certain things well, and I just want the chance to do them. I have chosen to do them on my own since nobody wants to hire women my age. People from about 45-65 are a mostly untapped resource!
Me too, its trickier with a chronic illness too. I can do the work, I just can’t always convince the employer to grant me the flexibility that exists around when I do the work. Thank you for raising this issue.
That's another whole issue to bring up.
If employers were ACTUALLY desperate to hire people, you and I would be hired by now.
I doubt the damn fools would realize how desperate they are if you hit them with an axe handle in the face. The current crop of managers have no respect for people in general. Much less who could improve their operations. The sniveling devils will be laid off themselves one day before they know it and deservedly so. Their despair will be the olive in my martini.
I love your comment. Love the tone. I feel comradeship.
100% Who knew capitalists were so wasteful... oh wait
Right. Nothing beats experience. It cost a lot of time and money to train younger people and you can’t count on them as much. The turnover is high.
I got turned down by a supermarket.
A friend of mine with a degree kept getting turned down for roles eventually one recruiter told her: “We all know you won’t stay”. Also, being over 21 they couldn’t pay a junior wage. And if you’re outside your 30s they fear it could get expensive if you hurt yourself. And you probably would object to being treated like dirt. None of this helps if you need to pay for food and shelter. I hope things improve for you Lucy.
Thank you. I’m very lucky, things have worked out, I landed my dream job against the odds. It’s only part-time, but it’s do-able. I’ve heard since that me getting hired was a very close thing (50’s, fat) but a dearth of applicants and me having experience got me over the line. My employer has openly said they have no regrets at all about hiring me, yet they still prefer to hire younger ones if possible. The young people are great, I love working with them, but they call in sick a lot, have no intention of staying long term, and don’t seem to have much initiative.
True story: A certain entitled boss I know who inherited his lucrative place in life would bitch constantly about the work habits of his young employees, who, he said, never stopped applying for better jobs and would leave with little notice. That SAME BOSS at one point cleaned house and dumped all but one of his older employees, save one he couldn't for a specific reason. Forgive me for my lack of sympathy for his terrible problem.
I left a great good paying job in 2013 because my sister and I were tasked with helping Mom manage Dad's pancreas cancer. I honestly thought that it wouldn't be an issue getting a good job when that work was done because I've got great experience, a great work ethic, lots of skills.
Nope.
I've been pounding my head against a wall since 2015, trying to find out where I fit in the working world.
Just got fired from a shipping job because the "good Christian woman" got a wild hair?
Just got turned down for a retail position at Petco.
According to American culture, at 64, I'm not a fit anywhere.
I write, paint, create, and am looking for good paying work. I'm also, because of circumstances, trying to find a low paying job that doesn't treat me like the backyard dog that escaped into the house.
I’m sorry you are going through this and can relate. I’m so tired of hearing businesses are desperate to hire. No they aren’t!
Thanks, Michelle. Lots of people are struggling.
Thank you. Also, that same sect of people don’t want to hear me tell of my friends who work 3 or 4 jobs and have no benefits because they are all part time. My friends who can’t make rent even though they work so much and don’t get enough sleep. They just parrot “unemployment is at an all time low.” Yeah. Because my friends work 3 or more jobs !
Rasmussen, which is pretty reliable, has the real unemployment rate closer to 9%. THAT'S what I see.
It makes me happy to see that people have finally rebelled against the inhumane expectations in the workplace. I could never accept it and took the same alternative route you are of piecing together freelance work. But I did it at a time when no one worked from home and everyone thought I was weird for it. I wonder today, how will the jobs no one wants to do get done that we all rely on?
I agree! My response is, “ not at less the 4% unemployment. And people like me, you’re right. I don’t want to work anymore. I haven’t seen an offer that beats what I have at 65. Probably what you have to offer is a shitty job with shitty wages. It’s what the market will bear.”
The online application process is broken too. Many of those jobs aren’t even real.
and it is hard to get around the AI gatekeepers
I'm finding out what work is now that I'm running my Substack. I started and stopped Medium, and started again. I took a low-paying job for a non-profit to find inspiration to write while waiting to relocate... it's a nice position for someone who 'needs something to do' but that isn't me. Over and under on how long I stay in this position is one month... low paying jobs simply don't don't for me, not after having great paying jobs most of my life. Good read, Michelle.
Can utterly confirm; if you take one high paying position, expect to forever be told you're "overqualified" for anything less.
I have sat and debated with someone for half an hour while on the verge of being evicted that I would gladly accept their pay and hours (both horribly subpar even for entry level) just to pay the bills.
And no one gives a shit. I was just told "studies have shown I will be unsatisfied with my work and cause problems."
I'm not a study, I'm a fucking person!
Everyone who has met me has hired me on the spot.
I haven't actually met with anyone for like 15 years though.
Your message resonates. I wish I had some advice but I’m sure you’ve tried all the usual things. Taking your education and experience off your resume might — MIGHT — help.
I’m not at an age where I suffer ageism (although my mum is and does, she has been applying left right and centre for internal positions to leave her department but they will not hire her even when she has more experience and is a great fit for the other position.)
People WANT to be fairly compensated. Why slave away at a position that won’t even cover my basics? Wages have been stagnating for decades while cost of living continues to increase. Real purchasing power has decreased.
Not to mention many jobs that are posted aren’t even real. They’re designed because governments give tax breaks to job creators, or to threaten current employees (we have 5 candidates waiting for your job if you won’t do it), or have people waiting just in case they need them.
One thing I learnt of here in Canada is that the government has a program where employers can bring in foreign workers if there is a shortage of qualified skilled labour. Yet, corporations like Tim Hortons and other fast food companies are claiming they don’t have enough skilled labour and are allowed to bring in foreign workers.
1. This is not skilled labour (pouring coffee, flipping burgers does not require specialized skills that can’t be taught or trained on site).
2. This is purely wage suppression. There are qualified candidates here, they just don’t want to work for a minimum wage and no benefits, job security or regular schedule. If these employers paid a living wage they would find candidates here.
This infuriates me because it allows corporations to keep wages lower (isn’t capitalism about supply and demand? These same companies that raise their prices because supply is low and demand is high won’t apply the same rules to wages. If you have a low supply of workers and high demand for positions to be filled, then raise wages to incentivize people).
It also infuriates me because we bring people here and offer them next to nothing. You cannot live on minimum wage. If we bring in as many immigrants as we do (last year Canada brought in 1 million people, in a country that was less than 40 million at the time) then we need to ensure we have the ability to support them. We don’t have well paying jobs, we don’t have affordable housing or even enough housing stock (whether affordable or not), we don’t have well functioning public transportation, on and on.
This is horrible. I really thought Canada was doing better.
I still love this country but I don’t want to let patriotism blind me to some glaring issues and inequality. Most of the issues here could have been prevented, mitigated or managed if we had proper planning and policy making.
So real! And even when you apply to entry level jobs they want four year degrees for less than 20hr. That’s impossible especially for jobs where all you do is sit at a desk and greet people.
I’m young and still can’t find a better job because half of them don’t exist. I know people who hire and they say that most of the time the business is testing the water to see if it gets traction and never even consider the applicants. Or if they can offer less if it’s popular. Pay is not transparent. And they will change last minute.
Job hunting is crazy and it’s sad how people are treated.
Hello Michelle. I completely understand what you are saying here. I worked in a unionized environment for 23 years. We would have university students come in to do work terms; some of whom would get offered placements. They would ask how they get from the job they are in to the one they studied for. The answer was, oh you will need about 10 - 15 years seniourity. Um... no thankyou, and off they went to a different company where they could do the work they love, right away, with perhaps a lower salary.
All the veteran employees with decades of seniority could not fathom them "giving up this good job". But is it, really? Is it really a good job with so many people in jobs they either don't have the skills or passion for... who got the jobs with seniourity and not necessarily anything else? They are unhappy and either unwilling or unable to do the tasks of the job, making for a miserable work environment.
I am not saying everyone was unhappy but far too many.
I applaud those young people who know what they want and are going for it. I agree that almost everyone wants to work, everyone wants to contribute, and know that their existence means something to the whole. They just don't want to work in the old ways where it was job first and life after.
I work to live now, I do not live to work. I left the corporate world at age 55 in 2021 to pursue my business with all my energy. Helping people with hypnosis and Reiki, plus writing does not currently bring in my management salary, but I love my life now.
Thank you for this true story, Michelle! My brother is 53, and has 30 years in his field and recently interviewed with a Fortune 500 company who sent two 20-somethings to interview him.
I also worked for a company and the manager asked me how to mail something, as in she did not know how to address an envelope!
Where is diversity and inclusion with people who know what the heck they are doing!?!
That’s crazy! She couldn’t mail an envelope?
no! I had to teach her where the address was written and the return address! No joke!
I love this!! Annnnd I relate to all of it! Very well written!
I got affected by all those tech layoffs last year. Tried to get back into the market but couldn't. Either I was too overqualified or underqualifed. Or I was being hired to do really really shitty jobs for not a lot of money. I decided to say fk it and freelance. I've always loved writing, so I decided to just do it full time and build up from there. It's tough on some days especially when you're not drawing in money but it'll come with time. Cuz I don't think I've been this happy in a long time.
Your subtitle says it all! Could not agree more.
thank you for reading!