I was raised in a poor evangelical family (got out as soon as I could). My step dad was constantly reminding us of this verse, correctly too! But when I point to drumpf he coughs out some obtuse excuse ("he isn't taking his presidential salary!") and in the same breath changes the subject to "the terrorists." The one thing that can consistently get an evangelical to allow every other rule to be broken is FEAR. Fear backed up by evangelical Christian nationalism. We will never have real progress in this country as long as racists keep using religion to keep people racist. This is absolutely maddening and I hate it here.
You’re right. They’re absolutely terrified. I think this explains their bravado about refusing to mask and claiming those of us who get a shot/mask are “scared” when the correct word is “prudent.” They’re so frightened all the time.
Exactly right. Greed is the real culprit. However, Jesus also said a lot about judging others. We don’t know how much these billionaires give to charity and how much they pay in taxes, really. Let’s not make assumptions without facts.
I am Catholic and we are supposed to embrace poverty! I just want to be able to pay my bills and buy a few books here and there. I have simple needs and I volunteer when I can. I have a strong faith due to my health issues like cancer, a brainstem stroke, pneumonia and a broken leg… I try to put a smile on people’s faces because I see people who are homeless, have diabetes and lost legs..etc. I pray for cancer survivors but I hope you won’t paint all Christians with the same brush. Plenty of us are quietly helping others by doing charitable work. As Jesus said, don’t brag about giving. St. Paul also said if he boasted of anything, he should brag about Christ!
Honestly, I do not believe it’s possible to be both a billionaire and a good person, and I’m very comfortable judging them in this way. The very fact that they have billions of dollars is all the evidence we need that they are terrible people. You don’t “earn” billions; you exploit them. Bezos drastically underpays his employees, for example.
I have never heard that Catholics are supposed to embrace poverty. On the contrary, my house is spitting distance from a Catholic church and school and it seems all the parishioners are driving expensive vehicles.
I’m always glad to hear that someone is living their faith, as I’ve met very few who do. Thank you for doing so.
This is what I think, for whatever it may be worth. And coming from the standpoint of the Classical Left.
I *do* think money is the root of most evil, rather than greed. Why?
Because greed proliferates like it does since we're forced to be dependent on money for everything, rather than simply having access to as much stuff as we need directly in exchange for a reasonable amount of work without a financial price tag getting in the way and limiting that access.
Hence, money is not value-neutral, it's the source of all greed. This because under capitalism, how much money you have and make determines "success" and how much access to material wealth you have. Those who have more money than others thus have power and privilege over them and make all the important rules, which encourages people to go to any lengths to acquire as much money as possible.
How much material wealth we are individually allowed access to is not based on individual need; not on the basis of reasonable want; not on the basis of what it requires to live comfortably; not on the basis of reasonable expectations related to how much modern levels of technology can produce for everyone.
Everything is commodified, so we have no choice but to try to earn as much money as possible. Yes, money enables us to buy what we need, which means we are dependent on it for that, and we are at the constant mercy of not having enough of it to meet our needs. Moreover, every vocation pays disparate amounts of it, and all based on how many hours you work rather than simply providing a reasonable contribution. Hence, power imbalances and desperation to acquire as much money as possible pervade this society, and none of us are able to opt out of this dog-eat-dog madness as long as this system remains.
And it's not just the GOP or Evangelical Christians who push greed. There is a very good reason why in this last election the majority of rich people voted for the Democrats, many of whom are not Christian but atheists, Muslims, and Pagans (I'm a Pagan, btw). That is why the liberals fail us and why I urge everyone on the Left to return to our classic roots of opposing the duopoly and a system that runs on money. Greed will go away once we make it irrelevant and pointless, and that's not going to happen under capitalism.
Agree that liberals are also capitalists, but just pointing out that a person can be greedy over any asset or commodity, not just money. Money permits greed on steroids.
I see what you're saying, Gigi. But it's hard to be greedy on assets alone if everyone exists in material comfort and everyone's material & psychological needs are met. And if you didn't need money to acquire the material items you needed, but they were guaranteed directly in exchange for a reasonable share of the useful work, then the source of greed would be cut off at the seems.
Greed only thrives in a system where some are allowed to have more than others in a material sense and when how much you have determines your status and level of power, as opposed to the respect and reputation you earn by doing a good job at what you do and your contribution to the betterment of all society. It doesn't exist "just because."
Also, commodities would not exist as such if not for a financial price tag.
Unfortunately if money did not exist as a stand in, the greedy would still hoard excess resources (land, food, water). Thus I think the point still stands.
Thank you for your response, Gigi. I do not agree that the point stands, however, because if money did not exist, then a handful of individuals could not acquire an excess amount of it to hoard all the resources in the first place. It's money that confers this type of power which is why the plutocrats that run the world insist that money must continue to exist and be the driving factor behind motivation and the very ability to move resources in the first place.
Secondly, without money, and the need for us to constantly acquire more of it, and the obsession of those few who have far more of it than they could ever hope to spend but still want to constantly accumulate more and more of it, the *motivation* for greed would not exist.
Greed does not exist in a vacuum. It exists because a system that runs on money, requires money to survive, and grants superior power & control over society to those who have more of it, and makes greed almost a necessity to even function in such a society. It's considered the very barometer of "success" and status in our society, irregardless of what our accomplishments happen to be outside of financial accruements.
A society that equitably disbursed the vast amount of material product that our current level of technology can produce where everyone equally shared the power would produce far better overall moral character and material comforts than one that runs on money.
Frankly, Gigi, I think the only reason that liberals attempt to argue that money is value-neutral is to try and reconcile the fact that some of them claim to be against the problems that capitalism creates while still supporting the Democrats, a wing of the capitalist duopoly that is funded by the exact same billionaire donors as the GOP (the other wing), supports the same world order, and always supports the same economic policies. There is a good reason why the affluent flocked to vote for the Democrats in 2024 and most of the working class did not (and a lot of us, including me, did NOT vote for the GOP either).
The liberals only ignore this very obvious fact is because they like the cultural issues promoted by the Democrats, which are very divisive among the working class and *do not* put food on anyone's table, do not get anyone out of massive debt, do not guarantee anyone a job with a living wage or a roof over their heads, and do not stop the incessant war-mongering.
Hence, liberals are not anti-capitalism, they are simply anti-Republican and (currently) anti-Trump. They will be fanatically anti-some-other-GOP-plutocrat once Trump is fully out of the picture. And they will be unquestioningly pro-whichever-Dem-plutocrat the DNC pre-selects to run in 2028, no matter what their record on economic policy, war, or reported personal conduct happens to be.
I was raised in a poor evangelical family (got out as soon as I could). My step dad was constantly reminding us of this verse, correctly too! But when I point to drumpf he coughs out some obtuse excuse ("he isn't taking his presidential salary!") and in the same breath changes the subject to "the terrorists." The one thing that can consistently get an evangelical to allow every other rule to be broken is FEAR. Fear backed up by evangelical Christian nationalism. We will never have real progress in this country as long as racists keep using religion to keep people racist. This is absolutely maddening and I hate it here.
You’re right. They’re absolutely terrified. I think this explains their bravado about refusing to mask and claiming those of us who get a shot/mask are “scared” when the correct word is “prudent.” They’re so frightened all the time.
Very good points, as always.
I love how you’re always able to verbalize what’s going on in my head.
I absolutely love that. There are certain writers who do that for me, too.
"...feed me with food convenient for me." We all kind of do that with the media we consume, in negative and positive ways.
Exactly right. Greed is the real culprit. However, Jesus also said a lot about judging others. We don’t know how much these billionaires give to charity and how much they pay in taxes, really. Let’s not make assumptions without facts.
I am Catholic and we are supposed to embrace poverty! I just want to be able to pay my bills and buy a few books here and there. I have simple needs and I volunteer when I can. I have a strong faith due to my health issues like cancer, a brainstem stroke, pneumonia and a broken leg… I try to put a smile on people’s faces because I see people who are homeless, have diabetes and lost legs..etc. I pray for cancer survivors but I hope you won’t paint all Christians with the same brush. Plenty of us are quietly helping others by doing charitable work. As Jesus said, don’t brag about giving. St. Paul also said if he boasted of anything, he should brag about Christ!
Honestly, I do not believe it’s possible to be both a billionaire and a good person, and I’m very comfortable judging them in this way. The very fact that they have billions of dollars is all the evidence we need that they are terrible people. You don’t “earn” billions; you exploit them. Bezos drastically underpays his employees, for example.
I have never heard that Catholics are supposed to embrace poverty. On the contrary, my house is spitting distance from a Catholic church and school and it seems all the parishioners are driving expensive vehicles.
I’m always glad to hear that someone is living their faith, as I’ve met very few who do. Thank you for doing so.
Well, nuns and priests take a vow of poverty but not the lay people!
I am proud to say I never aspired to be rich …hey, I’m a writer! LOL
And yes, Bezos does exploit his workers.
u&jc:"Remove far from me vanity ..."
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1K_9SkawJH6sRq-V5718NFw79j_t_SsVm/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10sB0fqSY4fbyuRvWeSvif6HXW1gDFXru/view?usp=sharing
Amen.
This is what I think, for whatever it may be worth. And coming from the standpoint of the Classical Left.
I *do* think money is the root of most evil, rather than greed. Why?
Because greed proliferates like it does since we're forced to be dependent on money for everything, rather than simply having access to as much stuff as we need directly in exchange for a reasonable amount of work without a financial price tag getting in the way and limiting that access.
Hence, money is not value-neutral, it's the source of all greed. This because under capitalism, how much money you have and make determines "success" and how much access to material wealth you have. Those who have more money than others thus have power and privilege over them and make all the important rules, which encourages people to go to any lengths to acquire as much money as possible.
How much material wealth we are individually allowed access to is not based on individual need; not on the basis of reasonable want; not on the basis of what it requires to live comfortably; not on the basis of reasonable expectations related to how much modern levels of technology can produce for everyone.
Everything is commodified, so we have no choice but to try to earn as much money as possible. Yes, money enables us to buy what we need, which means we are dependent on it for that, and we are at the constant mercy of not having enough of it to meet our needs. Moreover, every vocation pays disparate amounts of it, and all based on how many hours you work rather than simply providing a reasonable contribution. Hence, power imbalances and desperation to acquire as much money as possible pervade this society, and none of us are able to opt out of this dog-eat-dog madness as long as this system remains.
And it's not just the GOP or Evangelical Christians who push greed. There is a very good reason why in this last election the majority of rich people voted for the Democrats, many of whom are not Christian but atheists, Muslims, and Pagans (I'm a Pagan, btw). That is why the liberals fail us and why I urge everyone on the Left to return to our classic roots of opposing the duopoly and a system that runs on money. Greed will go away once we make it irrelevant and pointless, and that's not going to happen under capitalism.
Agree that liberals are also capitalists, but just pointing out that a person can be greedy over any asset or commodity, not just money. Money permits greed on steroids.
I see what you're saying, Gigi. But it's hard to be greedy on assets alone if everyone exists in material comfort and everyone's material & psychological needs are met. And if you didn't need money to acquire the material items you needed, but they were guaranteed directly in exchange for a reasonable share of the useful work, then the source of greed would be cut off at the seems.
Greed only thrives in a system where some are allowed to have more than others in a material sense and when how much you have determines your status and level of power, as opposed to the respect and reputation you earn by doing a good job at what you do and your contribution to the betterment of all society. It doesn't exist "just because."
Also, commodities would not exist as such if not for a financial price tag.
Unfortunately if money did not exist as a stand in, the greedy would still hoard excess resources (land, food, water). Thus I think the point still stands.
Thank you for your response, Gigi. I do not agree that the point stands, however, because if money did not exist, then a handful of individuals could not acquire an excess amount of it to hoard all the resources in the first place. It's money that confers this type of power which is why the plutocrats that run the world insist that money must continue to exist and be the driving factor behind motivation and the very ability to move resources in the first place.
Secondly, without money, and the need for us to constantly acquire more of it, and the obsession of those few who have far more of it than they could ever hope to spend but still want to constantly accumulate more and more of it, the *motivation* for greed would not exist.
Greed does not exist in a vacuum. It exists because a system that runs on money, requires money to survive, and grants superior power & control over society to those who have more of it, and makes greed almost a necessity to even function in such a society. It's considered the very barometer of "success" and status in our society, irregardless of what our accomplishments happen to be outside of financial accruements.
A society that equitably disbursed the vast amount of material product that our current level of technology can produce where everyone equally shared the power would produce far better overall moral character and material comforts than one that runs on money.
Frankly, Gigi, I think the only reason that liberals attempt to argue that money is value-neutral is to try and reconcile the fact that some of them claim to be against the problems that capitalism creates while still supporting the Democrats, a wing of the capitalist duopoly that is funded by the exact same billionaire donors as the GOP (the other wing), supports the same world order, and always supports the same economic policies. There is a good reason why the affluent flocked to vote for the Democrats in 2024 and most of the working class did not (and a lot of us, including me, did NOT vote for the GOP either).
The liberals only ignore this very obvious fact is because they like the cultural issues promoted by the Democrats, which are very divisive among the working class and *do not* put food on anyone's table, do not get anyone out of massive debt, do not guarantee anyone a job with a living wage or a roof over their heads, and do not stop the incessant war-mongering.
Hence, liberals are not anti-capitalism, they are simply anti-Republican and (currently) anti-Trump. They will be fanatically anti-some-other-GOP-plutocrat once Trump is fully out of the picture. And they will be unquestioningly pro-whichever-Dem-plutocrat the DNC pre-selects to run in 2028, no matter what their record on economic policy, war, or reported personal conduct happens to be.